Inaccessible/Unacceptable
This blog site called Inaccessible/Unaccessible has been developed by the Physical Disability Council of Australia (or PDCA for short) as a complimentary resource for those who experience access issues every day of their lives through discrimination, lack of thought, bad or non existent planning and design, and more....
Our reasons:
Under the Disability Discrimination Act (1992) an Access to Premises Standard is being developed in the same way that the DDA Transport Standard was developed.
The draft Standard will sit under the Act and also be the standard used by the Australian Building Codes Board (ABCB), ensuring consistency and certainty.
The problem:
We don't know what the ABCB is presenting to the federal government, even though there were people with disabilities involved in the consultation process and in the working group.
We need to ensure that our needs as people with disability are covered in the draft, such as:
- access to every floor of a building via a safe and appropriate lift
- adequate space in hallways and corridors (such as turning space and passing space)
- accessible toilets wherever there is a bank of toilets
- carparking
- access into buildings
- and more.........
- We want to hear your stories of how inaccessible Australia has impacted on your life.
- We want to hear if this has affected you financially in any way (such as limiting where you can work, if it costs you more then it should to get to your place of work because it is the only place accessible, where you holiday, where you can go for relaxation, where you have to shop and more....
- We want to hear how you have been discriminated against (in relation to access)
What we will do is collect the information to support our position - which is:
'people with disabilities have the same rights as Australians without disability to access the community. There should be no access barriers that prevent us from participating.'
Come on Australians - speak up about your lack of inclusion!
posted by Sue Egan | 4:43 PM
38 Comments:
I have just had the experience of trying to book a cheap hotel/motel in
Sydney. Once you require a hotel with a lift, instead of $119 per night at
The Haven Inn in Glebe, the only place you can stay for similar price has
shared bathroom facilities, and you have to pay for parking. Or, you pay
double the price!
It's about time the real cost of disability was researched. And we begin demanding tax breaks for van companies who provide vans to disabled people free: we follow America for everything else, why not on the provision of assistance to the disabled among us!
SueMac
Hello all
Sue Egan here.
My experiences of access are numerous and range across Australia, particularly in my work for PDCA.
Most recently our President and myself travelled to Melbourne and stayed in a hotel in the centre of Melbourne.
The rooms in the hotel were not suitable for people in either a manual wheelchair or an electric wheelchair and there were numerous issues such as:
cannot access bed from either side (not enough space)
cannot reach telephone
cannot turn air conditioner/heater on
too much furniture
bathroom door too narrow
and more
We also experienced problems with taxis such as:
different prices for the same trip (sometimes up to $25 more!)
Fees charged for interstate passengers (only applicable to Victorians)
accepting a booking and not turning up until 1 1/2 hours later
refusing to take 2 wheelchairs when order was accepted originally
Charging a service fee when service was not delivered
Consequently complaints have been made with both the hotel and the taxi company
More soon...
Sue
Good idea for a blog, Sue. While I don't have a physical disability myself, I've worked and socialised with a lot of people who do.
The two points I'd make are that 1) access has to genuine and egalitarian - saying "yeah, there's a ramp down the side alley near the tradesmen's entrance" is not acceptable", and 2) able-bodied people need to get behind this - it's an issue for the whole community, not just "the disabled".
Cheers
Well, I am as mad as hell and sick of taking it! Yesterday I went to check out the brand new "accessible toilet" in the brand new City Cross Arcade here in Adelaide. The old disabled toilet was really bad - too small etc etc.
I get to the new toilet and haul hard on the door to open it using the power of my electric wheelchair. I go in. Hmm, size probably ok. Turn around to lock the door, impossible. The door handle is a handrail type bar that runs the full length of the door top to bottom, it's about 5" or 120mm in from the edge of the door. The lock is a very small oval/oblong twist lock. Try as might I could not lock it!! I put my hand betwwen the handle and the door frame, I put it behind the handle. NUP!!!
There was no toilet roll holder - already gone from the wall and the toilet roll was propped precariously on the handrail. No soap - dispenser holder there but no dispenser. Handbasin tiny and jammed into a little right angle corner. Hand dryer on the opposite wall to the handbasin. Coat hook high up on the door.
Couldn't go to the loo cos I couldn't lock the door. Cleaned my teeth in there as on the way to the dentist who does not have an accessible toilet for me to use before I visit him. So I have to use very public ones.
When I arrived at this new toilet I waited 7 - 10 minutes for a strong, tall, able bodied iceceam seller to emerge. He ran away from me up the hallway as I yelled after him. Another AB tried to come in while I was cleaning my teeth.
This is a brand new toilet and it's TERRIBLE!!
There is more than one kind of access difficulty. Many autistic people are denied access to gatherings of people because they are submitted to sensory assaults from fluorescent lights, noise eg applause, odour and touch. The solutions are either to provide low sensory input venues or to permit online participation.
Our needs are undknown and our voices are not heard, because few people know we exist, and if they do, it is our parents who are consulted.
Good stuff Sue, In regards to taxis in Melbourne, there has been meeting after meeting withe the Victorian Taxi Directorate but still a HUGE problem. If a booked taxi is late, take the number and report to the VTD.
Hank
The Victorian Taxi Directorate is at 14 Blackwood St North Melbourne 3051 (03) 9320 4376.
The more people that complain about late or taxis that don't arrive then "they" might do something about it.
Hank
Hello Hank
Thanks for the heads up on Victorian Taxi Directorate. A complaint has already been lodged with them and HREOC.
If anyone else has a problem, there is a new staff member employed to look at these issues. Andrew Williams is his name, and he can be contacted on 03 9320 4306 - call him direct if there are problems.
Sue
Thanks to PDCA for offering this opportunity.
The Shell Service Station on Gailey Road, Toowong, recently renovated its service department and built a new office. This office has an entrance with 2 steps. When I enquired the attendant told me to use the side entrance, which also has a step.
I then checked the DDA and the modifications to the building would seem to be regarded as discriminiatory. Yet, the plans (one assumes) were either approved by Brisbane City Council and/or a building surveyor.
Why does this form of discrimination continue when we have legislation that is meant to prevent it?
From Margaret Stevens...
I came across an attitude today that flabbergasted me. I was at a forum that the local Council, Aged & Disability unit, hold on a quarterly basis.
I raised the issue of unfettered access to disabled toilets and was told that I was being discriminatory towards mothers. I will explain that I was suggesting that the change tables that are in some toilets could be situated somewhere else
thus leaving the person with a disability unfettered access to the one & only toilet designated for us.
I tried to point out that PWD only have ONE toilet available to us whereas People without Disabilities have ample amount allocated to them.
Access to the toilet is a basic need for all but as PWD only have ,mostly, one toilet allocated to them then we should be accorded the dignity of unfettered access to it.
This view appeared to be nacceptable to some of the other people attending the forum.
Is this attitude widespread oris it only in my local area?
Sue Salthouse wrote.....
My beef was that at Australian Parliament House on the ACOSS advocacy for Action (fantastic) day on 15 Sept, was directed to Accessible toilet in the labyrinth only to find the sliding door was stuck at 50% opening, and of course people in nearby offices had not a clue who to contact, or how to even lodge an 'out of order' note to maintenance!!
Sue
In addition to Sue's Blog about the Hotel in the centre of Melbourne... I was the one who was staying at this hotel with Sue and had to deal with all those problems along with her. I went a couple of weeks later to the same hotel and bullied them into allowing me to stay in the twin hotel accessible room because as described the other hotel room was not accessible. After inspecting the room, which was in the higher-priced hotel I saw that it was accessible so stayed in that room for the same cheaper price as the other hotel room. So that was okay. "Reasonable accommodation" I thought. I checked out in the morning before I went to the meeting and left my bag there to pick up later.
When I arrived back at the Hotel I needed to go to the toilet. I knew there was a public toilet on the first floor near the restaurant so I went up there and went around to the toilet. The door was locked with a trolley half across the door. A sign on the door said that we should use our hotel room key card to enter the toilet or get a key from the restaurant. I backtracked to the restaurant and asked the man for a key card. I went back to the toilet and discovered that the disabled toilet didn't have a key card lock but an ordinary keylock unlike the ablebod toilets. I backtracked to the restaurant again and told the man that fact. He of course didn't believe me because I'm just stupid cripple so he went to have a look at the lock himself. He came back and then went to look for the key. At some time during all this he commented to me that he didn't think anybody used that toilet. Humph!! He came up with a bunch of keys and we backtracked to the toilet again. Remember I wanted to go to the toilet about 10 minutes ago now! He tried two keys and they didn't work. The third one did. Hooray!
The man hauled the sliding door open. He didn't quite get it open all the way and I couldn't have fit through the gap so I asked him could he open it further. He obliged with another yank on the door and got it open all the way. He then said " is everything all right now Madam?" In my desperation, by now, to relieve myself I said thoughtlessly "yes no worries, thank you". He went off and I entered the room and turned to shut the door. I hauled on the door to no avail. I hauled again and again. I could not shut it! Then I just hung my head in frustration and swore reasonably quietly to myself. A passing housemaid saw me and asked if I was all right. I explained and she offered to close the door for me. I said I wouldn't be able to get out by myself so she said she would wait around to open it. No worries.
I turned into the room and looked. It was filthy! There was a thick layer of dust over every single thing. There were no hand towels, soap or toilet paper. The toilet bowl had faeces all up and down the bowl. Obviously nobody had been there for a very long time and no wonder considering the effort it took me to get in there. When I had finished the housemaid opened the door for me. I showed her the state of the toilet and she was disgusted and shocked.
As I passed an office/official looking door on the way out I decided to knock very loudly on it and get some attention regarding the debacle I had just experienced. A man in a suit came out and I told him, he, after apologising profusely, led me around to the front reception desk and got the manager for me. Funnily enough it was the manager that Sue and I had complained about the hotel rooms to the previous time that we had stayed there. He again was most apologetic and said they would see to it.
So, all in all a task that would have normally taken me approximately 10 minutes took 35 minutes by the time I had finished complaining. And all I want to do was take a piss! This is so typical and I am still as mad as hell!
Great idea Sue.
I recently attended a 2 day course on web accessibility in Brisbane city. The organisers of the course arranged for the venues to make their pre-booked rooms wheelchair accessible after they knew I was coming and that I was in an electric wheelchair. (I was able to attend these courses because the organisers were willing to let me attend for free. The course was not cheap.) On the first day, the course was held in the Sherwood Room at City Hall. I was advised to come in through the Ann Street entrance. It was raining and the Ann Street entrance to City Hall has no cover. I had to negotiate up a very narrow wooden ramp which was slippery. Going up is fine in a power chair but coming down backwards, which is the only way I can control the chair, was a nightmare. Fortunately my rear wheel did not slip off the ramp until about 1 inch from the end. A plus for City Hall is the fact that the toilets labeled accessible was wheelchair accessible with assistance.
The following day the course was held in Denisons on 30 at the Sofitel Hotel above Central Railway station. There were three ramps in this one room just to get to the panel level. 1 ramp was okay but the other 2 were very steep. Even the organisers of the course made me aware of this. Access to the lavatory was a nightmare. I need an assistant when I use a lavatory. My assistant had trouble opening the doors - 3 of them - so I could access the "accessible loo"! I would have complained but I was led to believe that the room is going to be "refurbished". I did leave a suggestion that they contact organisations representing people with disabilities BEFORE they did so. I left them three organisations to contact.
3 things that concern me:
1.Brisbane City Hall belongs to "we the people" - I just wish the "we" included PWD. Okay, it's an old historical building but is this an excuse for excluding PWD?
2. The Sofitel Hotel's Denison on 30 is called 1st class because it provides 360 degree views and delightful food but by making this conference room impossible for PWD to access it is treating PWD like 2nd class citizens.
3. Why was a conference on web accessibility held in two different venues which had to make alterations just to allow a wheelchair to access the room? I can only think of two reasons:
firstly the organisers of the web accessibility course were from Melbourne and were unaware that the venues were not wheelchair friendly
or
the organisers of the web accessibility course did not think people with disabilities would be interested in attending the 2 day course on web accessibility! I've come across the latter a number of times now.
It would be nice to wheel in the front door of public and private buildings like everybody else without worrying about access to blasted lavatories!
I am having so much trouble posting on this blog Sue. Can you help me.
Glee
aka
mad as hell
aka won't let me log in
hmm well that worked.
All this talk about toilets which is what we all end up doing at social gatherings don't we with outbursts of indignation and outrage and fits of laughter?
Anyway it doesn't make me feel confident that the Access to Premises Standards will be useful because builders etc have been ignoring AS1428.1 and .2 (the Australian Standards for Access for people with disabilities) since forever. Or reinterpreting them to suit themselves. It won't be any different under the A to Premises standards will it?
We will still have to complain?!
In addition to that last blog about the Standards... So keeping on topic - lodging a complaint of discrimination with HREOC is extraordinarily onerous, stressful and possibly dangerous for us to undertake.
I have twice been threatened with court/suing by two different respondents that I have been in conciliation conference with. One mildly and one more seriously.
Going through Conciliation is awful. And then if the respondent is contrary you may have to take it to the Federal court.
If you lose you may have to pay the respondent's court costs and you could lose all you own. Or at least your house if you are lucky enough to own one.
Now who else has to put themselves to such lengths to simply go to the toilet with ease?!!!!!!!!!!
This business about not having to have lifts in 2 and 3 storey buildings... as may be in the proposed Access to Premises Standards...
I know many people who have been looking for premises to rent to carry on their consultancy or chiropracty or dentistry etc. They have a hell of a time finding affordable accessible premises. If it is affordable it is often in a 2 -3 storey building with no lift and many many don't have a toilet even if they are on the ground floor. This will not change if lifts are not required in new small buildings. This will be to the huge detriment and inconvenience of small business owners.
I want to visit Taronga Zoo in Sydney, I emailed them to check if they have scooters but they only have manual wheelchairs - if you know the Zoo you know it is on a fairly difficult hill and either up or down would require strength that I and anyone with me just don't have - so now I have to decide if I hire a scooter or try and transport mine from Canberra.
UGH
Also in Sydney, not all ferry services are accessible - my father lives in Balmain and of course that wharf and ferry is not accessible for scooters (OK for wheelchairs that can do a couple of stairs).
I want to visit Taronga Zoo in Sydney, I emailed them to check if they have scooters but they only have manual wheelchairs - if you know the Zoo you know it is on a fairly difficult hill and either up or down would require strength that I and anyone with me just don't have - so now I have to decide if I hire a scooter or try and transport mine from Canberra.
UGH
Also in Sydney, not all ferry services are accessible - my father lives in Balmain and of course that wharf and ferry is not accessible for scooters (OK for wheelchairs that can do a couple of stairs).
Wanted to add - great idea for the blog Sue.
Also remembered the difficulty I had at Parliament House at the Pathways conference in Canberra - my scooter didn't fit through the normal security system - I had to go through separate doors and because I am a smoker they had to keep letting me in and out (escorted) and then told me that I was using staff resources to be escorted in and out so I was asked to smoke in the inner courtyard, but was not allowed to have others accompany me - which meant that the valuable casual conversations between smokers was not available to me.
As a consequence I left early feeling very miserable.
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Hi, Thanks for your interesting blog. Keep up the great work! I also have a site & blog about portable wheelchair ramps, please feel free to visit.
A dying man needs to die, as a sleepy man needs to sleep, and there comes a time when it is wrong, as well as useless, to resist.
Stewart Alsop- Posters.
I just came across your blog and wanted to drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with the information you have posted here.
I also have a web site & blog about electric wheel chair so I know what I'm talking about when I say your site is top-notch! Keep up the great work!
Hi, Thanks for your interesting blog. Keep up the great work! I also have a site & blog about wheel chair access, please feel free to visit.
Christmas is cruel for access at shopping centres. I use a walking frame for short trips and a buggy thing for longer hauls, and found either IMPOSSIBLE to get into shops at Greensborough Shopping Centre, Melbourne. Priceline was totally blocked I found my self stuck, unable to get in or out (as someone moved stuff behind me and left it)I was sitting there, almost hysterical with anger I guess, and angst too. What could I do. So I got angry with a staff member who gave me "well it IS Christmas" to which I replied "yes I know, but don't I have a right to do my Christmas shopping too?" Same thing in Kmart - had to wait and get help from a shop assistant who gave me a filthy look. And others as well. Came home and decided to complain. I've now been sent to 6 Government departments State and Fedral, and the only answer I had at all, was after Christmas from Sheryl Garbut who said her staff are contacting people to look into it! Yeah right.That'll be very effective.
I honestly feel like screaming. And haven't been back to the shoppping centre since. Too vulnerable. Same time I was putting along on the scooter and a man in a business suit said as he passed me "effing fat slag" well not effing, but the proper word. I was in such shock I din't even curse him by wishing him in my shoes just for a minute! Should be safe and comfortable shopping on wheels, how can we change this, Government don't listen I've tried, and the public don't give a toss.
Happy New Year one and all, and an accessible 2006 for us all!
I too experienced some of the blocking of aisles, christmas goodies piled everywhere etc etc. I also acompanied someone with a stroller and baby on board and noticed that they did not say a word but simply went another way or moved things. I said to the mum, why don't you complain and she said it was like that everywhere all the time!
I have decided (and did at the time) to say quite loudly that I will not spend my money in a shop that does not welcome me or make room for me. Assistants everywhere came running to move things but for me it was too late! I just moved on to another shop and I let them know in uncertain terms that it is discrimination to prevent me from coming in! They soon move stuff!
Christmas is no excuse, next it will be Easter then Mothers Day and Fathers Day then half yearly sales etc etc etc, No excuses - access is for everyone
Sue Egan
Like you Sue I purposeley let the shopkeeper know that they are missing out on my moneyy because I can't move around in their shop.
and I have taken up the practice of not attempting to shop between mid november and mid january. It's not worth the aggravation!!
cheers everyone
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I recently stayed at the Grand Chancellor Hotel in Adelaide and found their entry for people with disabilities is by the side door, which is in a small alcove.
The area is tiny (especially for those who use an electric wheelchair), it is also filthy and used by many street sleepers I suspect who use it to keep out of the cold.
It definately is unwelcoming considering we pay the same money as everyone else. How about making hotels give a discount when they are less that accessible?
Sue
I have another classic experience to share:
I booked a 'resort park' accommodation after finding it on the internet. The advertisement said 'disabled facilities" so I thought all was well.
My husband and myself travelled 3.5 hours to get to this place in Grafton NSW, and found that there was no access at all - nowhere on the property! So at 6.30pm we had to look elsewhere and fortunately found something around 7pm. What did I do? Lodged a complaint with HREOC of course
Sue
Well that's incredible Sue but utterly believable. What was their explanation for no access when it was advertised?
Glee
I have been sitting here trying to think of something to write on topic here and am stuck. How could that be?
hmmm I realise it's because I haven't been out much lately (too bloody cold) as there is a break in work "out there". And if I have been out it has been to old familiar "safish" places.
See, I knew if I sat here long enough I would think of something. It follows on from the access in shops message from Kettle. I have been looking in the last few weeks, a new phone, a computer mouse, an mp3 player and a printer/fax/copier thing. All of which were displayed at a height level with my eyes. Sooo tiring dragging them all down and propping them on the piles of boxes that I had to squeeze between to get to this stand. Phew.
cheers
Glee
In answer to dnelgeel on the Grafton issue and your question what did they do when a complaint was lodged? Denied it of course, said that they were willing to help find somewhere else and offered as much and we refused!!!!!!!
I told HREOC that they were lying and have a document to prove it as they left it outside for us with my name on the outside.
It is ongoing!
Sue
The thing I have a problem with is the accessiblity (or lack of) of certain art spaces around the city of Melbourne. The only way you can access these spaces are up rickety old stairs.
The nature of my disablity is I can walk but I find accessing stairs and escalators very difficult and whenever I am at the art openings of friends (I know a lot of art students) I have to be hauled up the stairs to the space and hauled back down again.
Well at least I can be hauled up. If any of the people who show work at these galleries had friends who used wheelchairs or scooters they would have to miss out completely.
The galleries are TCB in the Melbourne CBD (the worst one for accessibility), Conicle Gallery in Fitzroy, Bus Gallery in the CBD and Westspace Gallery in the CBD.
Anna Schwartz Gallery in the CBD has a lift inside but at the entrace are these massive stone steps without any ramp access.
Span Gallery in the CBD is on ground level but there is no accessible toilet.
Only one of these galleries have seating which is a problem for me as I can't stand up for long periods of time due to my disability.
I think the artists that run these spaces need to be around people with disabilities more. That would probably make them think more about access.
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